User talk:BioWareMythic

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-- Sannse

Greetings!
Thank you for starting this project!

By the way, remember to categorize your images. Makes them easier to find when other people want to put them on other pages and it avoids double posting in the end.

Knowledgebase Races
Hi Dave,

These knowledgebase articles seem obsolete now that you have proper information pages, however if you plan on keeping them you may want to include Minotaurs (I think that's the only ones missing) on the following pages: Etaew 21:47, June 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * What are the Races that you can play in Albion?
 * What are the Races that you can play in Hibernia?
 * What are the Races that you can play in Midgard?

Portal Pages - Return Links
Could each of the sub portal pages have a way to navigate back to the main portal page? I think this is a vital navigational aid. I sometimes find myself clicking left and right on those arrows at the bottom for a while to return to the page I want. Think of it like a site logo, we need something to click to reset it.

Example


 * Home Page


 * Click Albion


 * __MISSING A WAY BACK TO HOME PAGE HERE__


 * Home Page


 * Click Realm Ranks


 * etc

Etaew 22:08, June 28, 2011 (UTC)

Titles Section
We should probably also have a section created for titles and how to achieve them. If you create an entry for the page on the portal section I can fill it out. A list that I found on the web is http://camelotvault.ign.com/wiki/index.php/Titles

Etaew 11:27, June 29, 2011 (UTC)

Pendragon
I've been asked to create a Pendragon page, which will hold information on frequently asked questions. I know some are covered in the Knowledgebase, but lets be honest, it's not easy to get information from there. I'd like to create a page which covers: I will create this page now and we can rename it later if we need to, and I could do with a decision on where an entry to Pendragon could be placed, perhaps a Test Server, or Testing DAOC icon should be on the portal somewhere. Etaew 12:09, June 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * How to patch to Pendragon
 * How to connect to Pendragon
 * How to get to level 50
 * Where Do I Get Items
 * How Can I get Gold
 * Where to get ML items
 * Where do I get respecs
 * Where do I get diamond seals
 * How does charcopy work

Neutral Zone Nav
I originally posted this on Kai's talk page as he was doing a lot of zone edits, but it's probably best to ask about it here. How are we going to handle neutral zones? Agramon is listed for each realm, so I added Darkness Falls to each realms classic dungeons, we will need to also add Balbans Breach and Nergals Breach to the realms as well. Any design ideas on this? I don't think there are enough zones to justify having a Neutral Zones navigation box. Also, related to this each Atlantis zone is duplicated in game by realm, but not on the wiki, they will of course have the same information, until we start to describe npcs. Something to consider. Etaew 20:14, June 29, 2011 (UTC)

Default New User Message
http://camelotherald.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:98.239.99.203 is it the latest person in the admin group the message is posted by, or was this a concious decision that the message comes from me? Etaew 15:40, June 30, 2011 (UTC)

^^ thats just wikia algorithm thing. haha, no I'm not speaking for you :) yet.

BioWareMythic 17:10, June 30, 2011 (UTC)

Classbox - Spec Lines
Any objection if I add Spec Lines to the classbox under the Class Stats section? I feel the classbox should be the vital information, and users can then click these spec lines to jump straight to info and abilities in that line. I think the main class pages should be left for background information, opinions and guides etc. Etaew 19:24, June 30, 2011 (UTC)

Here is an example of what I was thinking:

--Etaew 08:49, July 2, 2011 (UTC)

Parser Function
I don't like the way the profession in classbox appears as N/A if there is a value for profession but no page exists. The code used: I don't really know mediawiki syntax, ideally we want something like if == "" | N/A |
 * 1) ifexist: |  | N/A

Etaew 15:39, July 1, 2011 (UTC)

I think I fixed it, if you see it rendering N?A where it shouldn't can you link me? Thanks

D BioWareMythic 19:33, July 1, 2011 (UTC)

Yup works well Mauler is a good example. Thanks. Etaew 19:36, July 1, 2011 (UTC)

Realm Order Consistency
I've noticed on a few pages, and this may be me being silly, but it stands out the order of the realms changes based on where you are looking.

http://web.cdn.eamythic.com/sites/daoc/files/images/2011_05_rohead_Tshirts_2.jpg Albion, Hibernia, Midgard.

http://darkageofcamelot.com/content/three-realms Albion, Hibernia, Midgard

http://web.cdn.eamythic.com/sites/daoc/files/images/minotaurmodels.jpg Hibernia, Albion, Midgard

http://darkageofcamelot.com/content/rvr-server-types Albion, Midgard, Hibernia

http://camelotherald.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_Age_of_Camelot_Wiki Albion, Midgard, Hibernia

http://camelotherald.wikia.com/wiki/Template:Classes Albion, Hibernia, Midgard

And there a few other examples, anyway, if we go by number order we know Albion = Realm 1, Midgard = Realm 2, Hibernia = Realm 3. We should have a consistent order. Etaew 09:20, July 2, 2011 (UTC)

We should use Albion - Hibernia - Midgard where ever it's possible. It's RGB, it's alphanumeric correct and it matches the realm selection screen in game. Vanesyra 16:32, July 15, 2011 (UTC)

Wiki Portal Page
Thanks for adding the home icon it helps, apart from pages like this where there is an edit link placed. http://imageshack.us/f/204/homenav.png/

I think the order of the page could be more pleasing to the eye, at the moment the 3 realm choice is spread over the page with sub categories spaced along the bottom. I think the realm choice should take up the left part of the page, whilst the categories are options on the right, this could make the page a lot more ordered.

Etaew 09:28, July 2, 2011 (UTC)

Navigation
Perhaps I leave you too many messages, but I randomly browse stuff, and things occur to me at different times. How do you change the nav menu? Something protected? I tried the Edit this menu option, but it didnt change it. I wanted to include some of the newer items and standardise the order comparing to the home page. Etaew 15:26, July 2, 2011 (UTC)

Either someone else changed it or it was a cache issue, seems to be fine now. Etaew 13:05, July 3, 2011 (UTC)

Table Template
Could we have a table template created to provide us with an easier way to create the same style tables on different pages. Realm Abilities has a crazy amount of html code in it. I copied 3 rows into City of Camelot NPCs trying to get a feel for the layout of the page. Not sure how well we can change the background of alternate rows.

Need to think about how we are going to provide a standardised style to tables, created a few rows on another example Banelord listing that master levels abilities Etaew 20:19, July 4, 2011 (UTC)

Another thing I noticed, http://www.bioware.com/ on the daoc section of the slider (towards the end) the link to game information goes to a page under construction page. Etaew 09:33, July 4, 2011 (UTC)

Zonebox
My thoughts on the Zonebox would like to see all the important information there, as well as villages/dungeons adding the adjacent zones.

Realm Ranks
I've added a test design for the Realm Ranks page, let me know if it's worth doing the entire table. Etaew 08:40, July 6, 2011 (UTC)

Expansions
I've been working through some of the Expansions pages, I've added a nav box, and I've been adding content to the pages, I've also added a collection of logos for the expansions. You may want to go and re-order the information and images that I have added. Etaew 09:38, July 6, 2011 (UTC)

localhost
I'm quite impressed with this one http://camelotherald.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:98.253.60.161 Please leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything! -- 127.0.0.1 (Talk) 18:06, July 7, 2011 Etaew 18:17, July 7, 2011 (UTC)

Bans
I just banned http://camelotherald.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Contributions/82.181.240.80 for some pretty unacceptible defacement. Etaew 08:22, July 8, 2011 (UTC)

Wiki Link
Could you have some sort of wiki link on the darkageofcamelot.com website? The only way that I can see to get here from there is to randomly click some links, the classes link here, but it's not very intuitive. Etaew 10:36, July 10, 2011 (UTC)

Race Icons
I've changed the text lists on the Races page, and only the Albion races have prettier pictures, could Midgard and Hibernia receive the same treatment at some point please. I've had to manually enter the Midgard and Hibernian races instead of using Rtab class Etaew 11:55, July 11, 2011 (UTC)

Grouped instead of seperate
Okay so I'm trying to save up some topics to discuss to post in a single message instead of multiple.

Most people usually get my aliases letters mixed up, it took you longer than most for your first mistake, I won't hold it against you. I understand you have been busy and I appreciate the work and changes you are making.

Are you working on the account center? Interesting changes on that people are having some difficulties on the forums, I like some of the changes, although most buttons don't work and I had to work around it.

I agree with keeping the classbox short and sweet but I also believe it should have the necessary navigational elements, and it serves as an "Official" box with pointers and information about the class, as such I wanted the abilities and specs to be there. The rest of the page is filled with descriptions, lore, opinion and various other information.

Zonebox I agree is the same, and I also agree that for a navigational purpose, people will use a single zone list (The Zones page does need work) on my previous site for DOL we had the following structure:


 * Expansion


 * Regions


 * Cities


 * Zones


 * Dungeons

I associate a lot of the zones in DAoC with expansions, and this is a nice way to group them up.

Also I rather like the way http://www.wowhead.com/ does it, Database->Zones->Continent, so if we won't do it by expansion we could do it by region still.


 * Regions


 * Cities


 * Zones


 * Dungeons

Perhaps Cities and Dungeons could be merged, shrug, but I prefer the grouping by expansion method.

Thanks for the change in the portal home button, it akes it a lot easier to navigate, can I request another change before I annoy you, can you add the following links in some sort of text subsection at the bottom so I can see the styling.


 * Titles


 * Pendragon


 * Bugs

I can't remember if we were goign to include any other pages to this.

Realm Ranks needs to be on that text links instead of the button, not only does clicking this break the style of the other links (slider) as it loads to a full page, it's a more information page and isn't deserving of a big feature.

I also want the Crafting link restored, whether in a text link or the graphic, I still think it is important. I want to be adding a list of crafting recipies and ingredients at some point for each craft. Would you also be able to upload the logo/icons for each of the trade skills. I don't know if you have any higher resolution or detail images for these, but the client ones would work well.

One of my random projects that I half forgot about was an icon generating web app, it would cut the base icon image maps in the appropriate place by icon ID, could we have something similar on the wiki or do we have to upload every single image? Arg!

Here is the page I created: http://www.dolserver.net/resources/icons/ and here is a sample icon http://www.dolserver.net/resources/icons/icon.php?model=306

We need to make a decision on the class groupings for each of the realm portal pages.


 * Template:Portal/Albion


 * Template:Portal/Midgard


 * Template:Portal/Hibernia

Albion and Hibernia classes are pretty easy to group, they have groups of classes in guilds. Midgard is different where all classes following a different god and in a different house. So I have added these just on the page in a table, to be honest I find this a lot easier on the eye than the Albion and Hibernia one where we split up the classes. And if you are flicking through the races and classes of one realm, I also feel like doing the same for another, instead of pressing home we could have smaller realm icons at the top of these individual realm pages to move betweenthem.

Any way to hide the left and right buttons on the slider?

If you are certain you want to continue to group the classes I can suggest two ways we can group the Midgard ones firstly by epic quest line.


 * Bonedancer, Spiritmaster and Warlock


 * Warrior, Berserker, Hunter, Savage and Mauler


 * etc

Alternatively you could group the classes by their old base class


 * Viking


 * Warior, Thane, etc


 * Mystic


 * Rogue


 * etc

I posted this message on my talk page, so you might have not seen it, I will repeat it here anyway.

I have been manually going through each old herald news posts and finding the grab bag type articles, I've been adding them to DOL in a forum (http://www.dolserver.net/viewforum.php?f=68 ), you will have to let me know if you plan to grab them from your old DB or if I should eventually post something here. This task is fantastic, currently on post 215 out of over 3k, but there is really useful information Sanya released through communication with the dev team about how the game works. A lot of nostalga too, found some great articles shortly after release about Mythics early plans, and some interesting bugs that needed emergency fixes. Cough, hopefully no-one reads DOL's FB page, I've been quoting some. Etaew 19:10, July 6, 2011 (UTC)

And finally.. yup. This is probably out of your scope of control, when I was adding the new class and race descriptions from the client I noticed a number of typos, is it something you guys could fix? I suppose I could add it to the Bugs section. It's a pretty minor fix, but I actually felt a bit embarrassed for new people reading it. I also noticed a lot of the descriptions weren't balanced and didn't mention any of the special mechanics for the classes. I have added these new descriptions to the Albion, Midgard and Hibernia pages.

To reproduce: A good example: The celts are a war-like tribe of Hibernian people who are known for their ferocity in battle. With a versatility that allows them to master nearly any fighting style, they are known (MISSING A TO) strike fear in to their enemies by charging wildly into battle with tattoos of woad across their faces. and another Theurgist(MISSING AN S) are spellcasters who harness the power of Air, Ice and Earth and shape them into spells capable of calling forth elemental creatures to aid them in battle. There are a few others.
 * Log In
 * Select Realm
 * Create new character
 * Select race or class
 * Observe the descriptions

Should probably stop editing this section, just to keep it in one post.... Anyway, regarding the class types, I would like to move away from Support/Melee/Hybrid and move towards something more recognisable in the gaming world. Melee DPS / Ranged DPS / Healer / Tank. Armsman could then become Melee DPS / Tank and Cleric Ranged DPS / Healer / Support.

Do you know the person maintaining the DAoC Facebook page? Could you ask that they remove the Uthgard spam links that a user has posted on a number of news articles, this goes against the policies of DOL regarding direct advertising. I have noticed the posts on the following:


 * Battle Herald is Watching You 20 June at 22:50


 * DAoC Game Timecards on Sale Now 17 June at 19:25


 * Origin - Game Time Cards 17 June at 19:19


 * Wall Photos 15 June at 17:58

Also, cough... Is there a way to make a navbox not auto hide? I wanted to use it to display toa zones and master levels on the Trials of Atlantis page.
 * BioWare Mythic Apparel 10 June at 18:58

Let's add the class icon to the class box? :)

Also I've started uploading Class Banners, these are large banner type images that were released in the fan site kit,I've only done Albion for now and created the template ClassBanner|ClassName so we don't forget where the images are. Not really sure how we can place them on each class page yet. So let me know of any ideas you have regarding plassment.

The helping out section on the home page seems to have been bumped below the slider.

On the darkageofcamelot.com website can we also have a text link off the nav bar for those who don't associate the W image to a wiki page.

I'm getting a bit tired of the constant edits to useful and useless realm ability sections on the class pages, this is entirely opinion based, one person makes a change and another changes it back the next day. Either we list all realm abilities available to them and call it that, or we look at a site which can provide realm ability builds and allow users to link to that and state their reasoning.

I've been wondering if you play / have played DAoC before or are just a web guy brought in to work on things. Anyway thanks for reading, thats all for now. Now back to finishing my report for tomorrow. Etaew 22:19, July 13, 2011 (UTC)

With the experience from the daocpedia.de page the edits for good & bad realm abilities will stop after some time. In some cases it may be useful to split realm abilities in different groups, for example PVE / RVR (done on the necromancer page) or maybe Offensive / Defensive (thinking about a shield paladin vs. a two hand paladin, one says mastery of block is useful and the other one says no). But we have to be careful that we don't get to many different realm ability templates on a single class page. Less is better here. If someone wants to write a guide for a class for doing solo or so we also could add a guide selection on the class page linking to Paladin Guide My Solo Guide for example Vanesyra 13:16, July 18, 2011 (UTC)

My Ban Log
Not sure if you need me to report these as they are contained in the on a block list: http://camelotherald.wikia.com/wiki/Special:BlockList

Banned another user today for unacceptable edits, my 1 year bans may be harsh, but it's the maximum time allowed and I don't really want them to make another edit. Etaew 16:21, July 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * Blocked User 1: http://camelotherald.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Contributions/82.181.240.80
 * Blocked User 2: http://camelotherald.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Contributions/71.207.164.246

UI Icons
The system with the ui icons as you told us on Style_Guide has to be reconsidered. It's much more easy to work with ID numbers that the game uses in most cases, then giving them unique names. For example I created an automatic tool to create this page http://daocpedia.de/index.php/Belagerungswerk but this is only working if it's done with ID numbers and not with names. Because the tool only knows the ID number of the image and not the name someone gave to it. To get the ID number of a Icon we used http://tool.excidio.net/icon/ a tool like this. And it's also important that we use not only one icon template. We need two: one big and one small (like the inventory icon and the icon on the quickbar). So I would like to see working for big icons and  for small ones.

I can also update the tool http://tool.excidio.net/icon/ with the latest set of icons and create a fresh set of png files for each icon. But don't know how to deal with a mass image upload of ~10000 pngs here into the wiki. So I ask before, making you cry :P Vanesyra 02:06, July 15, 2011 (UTC)

MM that is a nice tool, but yeah ouch for the tons of pngs, shame we cant use php image links like we do on my tool, silly wiki. Etaew 07:53, July 15, 2011 (UTC)

I just looked at it, with editing MediaWiki:External image whitelist we could enable a external webpage as image host. So when you would add: ^http://tool\.excidio\.net/icon/png/
 * 1) tool.excidio.net icons

this should let us show a icon by using: http://tool.excidio.net/icon/png/100.png

Later Mythic could upload the images itself on the camelotherald.com and we could use that images instead. Vanesyra 18:32, July 15, 2011 (UTC)

I just gave this a go see: http://camelotherald.wikia.com/wiki/MediaWiki:External_image_whitelist and my demo on http://camelotherald.wikia.com/wiki/User:Etaew. If you have any suggestions as to how to fix this let me know as this doesn't appear to have worked. I'll have to research this more to see if we can support it. Hopefully BiowareMythic will get some time to direct us regarding this.

Etaew 19:08, July 15, 2011 (UTC)

Got this working, seems I only needed to paste the image URL into the target document. Go ahead and make your icon template, we can discuss with Dave about uploading to wikia when he is next on. Etaew 19:16, July 15, 2011 (UTC)

I have just updated the icon set. Had a bug fixed within my tool that did not draw some borders on item pictures correctly. For example the artifact had no borders. Vanesyra 21:17, August 27, 2011 (UTC) Some more little errors fixed. All pictures are now saved with 96 dpi. Vanesyra 22:04, August 27, 2011 (UTC)

Trailers and Other Videos
Do you guys have any high resolution trailers or other videos you can upload to YouTube and then we can embed on the wiki, I've been adding some other trailers posted by other users to the expansion sub-pages but would prefer to have an official source and the best quality possible. Also, the embedding is a pain in the ass, some videos work fine, others don't, not sure why yet. Let me know if you have any ideas. --Etaew 11:20, July 24, 2011 (UTC)

Following Up
Etaew, As always, I thank you for your continued work on the wiki. You have a lot for me to cover this time, I will do my best. Sorry about misspelling your handle!

Unfortunately I can’t answer much about the account center. I know that there was work being done on it but I can’t say what the extent of it is or the timeline as it isn’t my area.

You have been doing a fantastic job. Our studio is spread fairly thin, and I have little and less time lately. I want to help you as much as I can but in the next few weeks I can see that I won’t have a great deal of time to devote to the wiki. In general, I think the decisions you are making are sound and well executed, and I encourage you to continue to make the changes and additions that you think are best.

The time that I do spend on the wiki in the near future will be primarily spent on visual updates (there is another update coming to darkageofcamelot.com as well), giving some love to the front page, and touching base with you. I will add extra buttons to the front page soon. Moving realm ranks, adding the requests you made, crafting etc.

I have to say I am surprised at how the class boxes have changed. I know that I said that I thought it was getting too long, but I didn’t expect them to be as shortened as they are now.

The zonebox’s have received a similar treatment I see. I’m not opposed to presenting the information like this, as long as you think that this is the best way of doing it. I know you had wanted to add more information so I am surprised to see less.

I agree that the non-organized look of the Midgard races and classes does look better, organizing has its merits as well. But the more I think about it, I feel as though alphabetical and otherwise unorganized might be the way to go.

I see you took away the left and right links on the slider, which is good. They were basically useless.

I read through your discussion about icons (and yes the way it was setup before was terrible I know). Were you able to get this to work? These are being externally hosted correct? I tested out a couple and it seems to function. You mentioned that you were waiting to see what I thought. If it works, I think it’s fantastic. Uploading to Wikia would be very painful. My understanding is that we can white list an external server. If you can get them organized (cut out and named) I might be able to get them hosted on one of the DAoC webservers. Let me know if I am misunderstanding the situation.

As far as class types, Melee DPS etc, go for it. We want people to use the wiki because its easy and has useful information, not confuse them. I will put a text link to the wikia on darkageofcamelot.com.

I leave the banning to your discretion. Totally unacceptable edits should get maximum ban, wrong or just highly opinionated, but still technically relevant, information perhaps less. But the truth is that I am grateful for you taking care of it. The hammer is yours.

Trailers… Unfortunately, there just isn’t anything hi-res, or HD. We stopped making videos before the hd era was fully upon us. There may be some in the future… but as of right now there are no hd versions. That said there might be better versions that what are online if only slightly. I will certainly look. About some videos working and others not: Yes, I have noticed this as well, Im not sure if it is a per video problem as much as it is a wikia I had been experimenting on another wikia and had a similar problem. Have you tried using both versions of the youtube embed code? The other thing seems to be refreshing the cache sometimes helped. It is very odd. Sometimes I want to punch the Wikia. Maybe you agree. Let me know about the icon uploading, and I will hopefully be able to give some attention to the front page this week. Thanks again, D BioWareMythic 22:25, July 25, 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback, a lot of credit has to be given to User:Vanesyra it may be worth checking out his work, he has been doing some pretty awesome templates such as:
 * http://camelotherald.wikia.com/wiki/Template:Box/Attributes
 * http://camelotherald.wikia.com/wiki/Template:Box/Abilities
 * http://camelotherald.wikia.com/wiki/Template:Box/Style
 * http://camelotherald.wikia.com/wiki/Template:Box/Spell
 * http://camelotherald.wikia.com/wiki/Template:Box/Realm_Abilities

Regarding the Classbox, this was a change he made, and I've reverted it for now as we discuss it, it was never intended to just be a picture box. Regarding further design decisions I've started posting to the Task List page.

The icons work well the white-listing for Vanesyras site is fine for now, I will leave a message for him to contact you with a zipped version for hosting on official web servers, but it isn't a priority for now.

After the news announcement on darkageofcamelot.com regarding the wiki we had a spike in contributions which was good, of course that meant more bad edits too but it seems to have settled back down now. Also thanks for the shout out on the page.

My time is also running short although I do try to make a token edit and change log review a day. --Etaew 10:27, July 26, 2011 (UTC)

Icon Zip: http://tool.excidio.net/icon/png.zip but has to be updated every patch (when icons are changed / added / deleted). Vanesyra 12:51, July 26, 2011 (UTC)

CSS Badness
At some point a large grey background was added, I tried to edit the css to clear it but this hasn't worked properly, could you take a look at it when you next get a chance. Thanks. --Etaew 11:41, July 28, 2011 (UTC)

I've started to add text links to the home page, feel free to point out any design decisions on the Task List page.

Also I've started cleaning up the Expansions page, looks much better with the box art, is there none for Foundations? --Etaew 19:52, July 28, 2011 (UTC)

Need some Edits for Item Template / Tooltips
MediaWiki:Common.js

MediaWiki:Wikia.css

After adding this and purging your browsers cache the item on the Paladin should get a tooltip if you mouseover it. The idea for this is based on the [wowwiki.com], made it working and compatible for daoc. Still much stuff to do... would it be possible to get temporary access to edit MediaWiki:Wikia.css and maybe also MediaWiki:Common.js would help alot with this.

Vanesyra 01:53, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

He's pretty busy at the moment, I have permission to edit these files and I have done so. --Etaew 08:00, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

did a update on the css and js code. please update it too. Vanesyra 16:34, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

Done, probably. --Etaew 16:38, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

wow fast! had a little error in it :D Vanesyra 16:44, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

We should move this discussion somewhere as we are filling up BioWareMythic's wall, those tooltips are pretty large, we should look at compressing them slightly for display, certainly moving the spaces and headings for ToA bonuses etc when there none. At the moment some items will take the whole page in tooltip, but yes, this full information should be displayed on the full item details page, perhaps we should remove magical bonuses? I dunno. :) --Etaew 13:28, August 24, 2011 (UTC)

Clean Up Talk Page
Maybe clean up this talk page from time to time. Maybe create an archive for important talk to store it there. But it's growing and growing and well you don't find the important stuff with so much old stuff on this page. Vanesyra 01:58, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

Knowledgebase
There is something strange here within the wiki since the beginning. A wiki itself is a knowledgebase and you added a knowledgebase to this knowledgebase. It's somehow like coloring a black door with black color and sing "I want to paint it black" ^^.

It's just like we got two different knowledgedbases in one wiki. For example we got a KB page called How_do_Relics_work_within_DAoC? and we have a KB Relics. Both with a bit different content / categories as well. But what we really should have just a Relics page (without a KB) that tells us EVERYTHING about relics in daoc. Because if you really need the information about how relicts work, then you will never search in a wiki by typing "how do relics work within daoc?". You will just use the search box and input "relic". But most of the KB stuff got silly and long headlines that makes it hard to find the information that you wish to find.

Or if you search for information about your account. You will search for "account" => http://camelotherald.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=account&fulltext=0 but what is going on? We got pages like account cancellation, renewal, splitting, ... but there is NO Account page? wtf? :D I would expect all account related information on that page, but it does not even exist? That's not how content should be stored in a wiki (at least that's my opinion :-))

Also you should make much more use of redirects within a wiki. For example, create a Account page. Then create a Account create page and use "#REDIRECT Account" on it. The cool thing about redirects is that they stop that pages from appearing in the Special:Random but you still can use it to search the information you want. Try using the "Random Page" now, can take a while until you reach a real page. most likely you will reach some very short KB pages.

Vanesyra 02:37, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

I've been going through a bunch of KB pages and removing them if they are obsolete or out of date. Some answer quite specific questions, so they need to be renewed, there are a ton about housing but I agree this entire wiki is a KB and so there shouldn't be a seperate section. It was just far easier for them to import every article from the old KB. --Etaew 08:02, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

So what's done with the Knowledgebase? Can't you just delete that crap out of this wiki? Almost all Knowledgebase articles are obsolete, they got no layouting and offer less information. It's a bad joke that your costumer support still uses them... It's like telling people the earth is flat. An little example:
 * How_can_I_rotate_my_alchemy_table,_forge,_lathe_or_Loom_inside_my_house%3F You can not rotate a hook point object. The rotation is fix right at the moment you place the thing on the hook point. And hell there is no "Loom"...
 * Patch_Notes:_Version_1.74C Â â€™}} ?!? nice page lock... players could fix this without that lock (content page lock on a wiki = evil)
 * Can_I_re-open_my_account_to_play_Shrouded_Isles%3F Purchase Shrouded Isles? did I miss something? what year we got?
 * Missing_Style If Sanya will response to this?
 * Can_I_give_housefriends_permission_to_teleport_to_my_house%3F The answer is yes you can. Teleport stone within the house, permission to bind and "hearth" will get you there.
 * Is_there_any_way_for_me_to_verify_how_much_coin_is_in_a_lockbox_before_I_buy_the_house%3F Answer is yes you can. With permission to pay rent on that house you can put money on the house, then you get a message like "This house already has the maximum amount of money placed in the lockbox!"
 * Can_I_use_software_like_Roger_Wilco_in_DAoC%3F Again what year we got? and by the way you added support for xfire to daoc "we will not support, in any way, the use of these types of devices." sure sure :-)
 * I_would_like_to_remove_some_of_my_startup_items_in_Windows_2000,_but_I_am_not_sure_how_to_do_this._How_do_I_go_about_doing_this%3F ah here's the answer on the what year we got question... 2000 and we are here on the microsoft's windows support wiki, now I got it :D

So there are two possible solutions: 1) you get your costumer support to look at ALL their articles at least once and FIX them. Or 2) you better delete all KB articles to not provide that huge amount of WRONG information to your players.

I can understand that you provide page lock for account, purchasing and tech support related stuff. But for all other KB articles a "registered" user should be enough. The "Player Policies" is total misplaced here. And a little hint... you should protect the pictures of protected pages too. Everyone can change File:L5.JPG for example. Vanesyra 10:52, September 8, 2011 (UTC)

Namespaces needed
I just requested namespaces: "Item", "Quest" and "Npc" for this wiki. On Special:Contact

Not sure if a normal user can request this, maybe has to be requested by a admin or the wiki owner itself, documentation does not answer this. So maybe you have to resubmit this request.

The reason for this namespaces is to separate the items, quests and npcs a bit from the rest of the content. You will also be able to search only the "Item", "Quest" or "Npc" namespace which may be very useful for search requests.

Vanesyra 10:11, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

This is now set up --Etaew 16:49, August 23, 2011 (UTC)

Oh but I should mention, I went with NPC instead of Npc. --Etaew 17:04, August 23, 2011 (UTC)

Monobook Skin
Think about removing the Monobook skin from this wiki or even better... make it working! All the stuff you added is only for the wikia skin. Some things like the front page of the wiki are looking very very bad if you use the "monobook" skin. But in the end the monobook skin is the better one: clear layout, more space for content and a white background and a dark font is always easier to read.

Vanesyra 10:21, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

CSS Change
Hi Dave,

A Wikia team member has removed some CSS code because of policy violations relating to width and height restrictions, feel free to look on my wall for the message.

I have had to re-arrange the home page because of this, this is just a flag for you to re-visit this design when you get the chance.

--Etaew 23:03, August 22, 2011 (UTC)

Effective Armor Calculation for Item display
Looking for the exact formula for the "Effective Armor:" calculation as displayed on the item's shift+i page. For example the astral plate torso got 154 effective armor, while the plate maddening scalars only got 153 displayed. I need that for displaying the items correctly on the wiki, without forcing the players to input that value by writing it. Look at for an example.

And you may also think about providing other formulas as well: cast speed, cast damage, melee damage, melee speed, evade, parry, block and so on. Some parts of the formulas are already known but by hiding the exact formula you give a huge advantage to a small group of players that just know something more about the game. No more hidden values (like to hit bonus on artifact, champion and some other weapons) would make the game much more common player friendly. You display a "WeapSkill" (a thing that is NOT used for anything in the game) but you hide the important damage table... why? Don't you want new players to understand that game? Please finally rethink this :D (more such stuff can be found => Wish_List)

Vanesyra 21:16, August 23, 2011 (UTC)

Whistle, I've not gone as far as to ask people for formulae, even though many many hours have been spent on DOL running the numbers to figure them out, we will never get it perfectly. You can take a look at what we have in regards to this, but it's not something I think Mythic will ever release.

https://dolserver.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/dolserver/DOLSharp/trunk/GameServer/packets/Client/168/DetailDisplayHandler.cs

EAF = AF * item.Quality / 100.0 * item.Condition / item.MaxCondition * (1 + item.SPD_ABS / 100.0);

--Etaew 21:29, August 23, 2011 (UTC)

An up to date DOL source checkout is on my desktop for a very very long time :p It's always a nice source to look up some things. And that formula you use there is not working well in the end.

I really hope that Mythic notices that up to date games release tons of information about their game and it's content. Mythic did an epic fail within this in the past 10 years. It's time to rethink this... Just look at WOW, they even display the items on their page... not to note that the DAoC Spellcrafting System is far far more complex... and DAoC players get zero support from Mythic handling that Spellcrafting stuff (Spellcrafting in daoc is the best system i know, but it also got the WORST UI and support ever seen in a mmo). All calculators for Spellcrafting are player made (some players even pay money for spellcrafting calculators...), all item databases are player made. UI editors are player made and there is no up to date UI definition out there. Character planer are also player made.

Vanesyra 23:43, August 23, 2011 (UTC)

DAoC stems from an era where player discoveries and adventure were key, no quest icons etc, later research was undertaken into the information that is available to the players and that is why mmos developed since have been very user friendly. Because DAoC was one of the first mmos it lacked these features and never really received the resources to address this properly, some half attempts were made, quest icons, quest locations on the map, but the mindset of giving information to players has never been a priority for Mythic I have found. Sanya did lead the field when she put forward the camelot herald website, no other game presented the information like that, however that information was never kept up to date and as Sanya moved on the people replacing her never had as much priority with player information and communication. As DAoC exists in maintainence mode at the moment we can give up any hope of UI refreshes, but we can hope that the company changes the communication policy somewhat. The game has some complicated elements and needs to be new user friendly, so information needs to be released to the players, as they definately won't want to go and look around on the net just to find things out. Erm, I seem to have rambled, sorry.

An interesting concept that would be great if Mythic could consider is player submitted contributions. I believe that Mythic do not have many resources left to maintain DAoC and that the player base, and DOL team are definately willing to contribute and fix things. I had been thinking on this a while that a public contribution to DAoC could refresh the scene a lot, there are things that can't be changed because of game engine license and whatever "secrets" they have, and then the worry of security exploits (DOL gets around this). I could imagine having a code store on the website, where players can view for example quest scripts in whatever language is used and submit fixes, there are various things that can be addressed, such as the numerous typos I've added to the bugs section. Spell / ability behaviours. We have some very talented professional programmers who would have loved to work on the game they love but hit limitations on the client, for example, new Adapters from the client which can power better UIs, my dream is for better tooltips and unit frames. --Etaew 09:17, August 24, 2011 (UTC)